‘Trying’s Rafe Spall & Esther Smith on Why Season 5’s Perfect Ending Isn’t Really the End

Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for Trying Season 5.Over the course of five seasons, Apple TV’s greatest hidden gem, Trying, has evolved from a couple wanting to start a family to now navigating the challenges of keeping them all together. While Season 5 throws Esther Smith’s Nikki and Rafe Spall’s Jason into some of their toughest emotional territory yet with the return of their children’s biological mother, Kat (Charlotte Riley), the striking chapter forces everyone to rethink where they fit into each other’s lives.

Along the way, Nikki admits she was really digging her new coworker Kerry (Colin Morgan), Jason begins questioning whether he’s really cut out to become a social worker, and their daughter Princess (Scarlett Rayner) finally confronts the questions she’s carried with her since foster care. Yet somehow, Trying still finds room for bad rap songs, mistaken identities, and a festival centered around Scott’s (Darren Boyd) latest bizarre idea.

Ahead of the Season 5 finale, Collider spoke with Smith and Spall about the biggest turning points of Episode 8’s “WoodScott,” and why the ending feels less like a goodbye than the start of another chapter for the family. As Smith puts it, the finale “gives opportunity for them to go in any direction now,” while Spall sees a future in which Trying continues moving beyond its original adoption story: “Now it’s kind of a family show. It’s about family.”

In an exclusive with Collider, Smith and Spall together unpack how the finale brings several long-running stories to a close, including Kat’s heartbreaking farewell to Princess and Tyler (Cooper Turner), while leaving Nikki, Jason, and their family with plenty of room to keep growing.

Nikki and Jason’s Marriage Survives Its Biggest Test Yet

“Something’s tested, and it’s how you meet that test.”

For the first time in the Andy Wolton-created series, Nikki and Jason’s relationship is tested by something that doesn’t exactly come from the outside, but more so from Nikki herself. As Kat’s return leaves her feeling disconnected from her family, the anxious Nikki finds herself drawn to a new coworker, Kerry. But what begins as an innocent friendship slowly turns into a crush, culminating in Episode 6’s (“Halloween”) beautifully written and performed confession at the movie theater, where Nikki admits she never corrected Jason when he assumed Kerry was a woman. But instead of turning that into a sappy and melodramatic moment, Trying doubles down on what has always made this couple so lovely: their willingness to tell each other the truth, even when it’s uncomfortable.

“I’m really pleased that that was the resolution of that,” Smith tells Collider. “When I first heard that there was going to be this character called Kerry that was a potential threat, I freaked out a little bit because I was like, ‘Surely not. Nothing can damage this solid relationship.’ And actually, in essence, what it does is something’s tested, and it’s how you meet that test. They did meet it really maturely, so then that’s just added more growth and more strength to them.”

That emotional spiral wasn’t really about Kerry, though. As Smith explains, Nikki’s feelings stemmed from believing she was slowly losing her place in her own family while Princess bonded with Kat and Jason settled into college. “Nikki’s scared that she’s being left behind and that she’s being forgotten about, and things are changing around her,” she says. “She wants to figure out who she is now without the mom hat on.” Even her decision not to tell Jason that Kerry was a man felt like a line she knew she was crossing.

But for her co-star (and real-life husband), Spall, that’s exactly why the storyline works. Rather than manufacturing conflict for the sake of it, Trying trusts Nikki and Jason to have built the kind of relationship that can withstand difficult conversations. “It’s a healthy dynamic,” he says. “They’re challenged constantly. In this instance, it’s, with them, a breaking of trust. But they have a very mature, healthy approach to their relationship. They know that things happen. They know that things get thrown at them. And yes, they love each other, but also they like each other. They like each other, and they really see each other… All of these things that we’re talking about contribute to them still being a pretty aspirational couple, really.”

Princess’s Reunion With Kat Changes the Future of the Family

Kat is “a bomb” thrown into the family, but she is not the villain.

While Nikki and Jason’s marriage comes out stronger by the end of Season 5, the finale’s biggest emotional payoff belongs to Princess. Ever since her mother reappeared at the start of the season, Princess has been chasing the idea of the relationship she always wished she could have with her biological mum. But in “WoodScott,” the teenager finally realizes that some questions just don’t have the right answers. In what is also one of the season’s most heartbreaking moments, Princess unknowingly opens up to Kat (hidden inside the festival mascot costume she believes Nikki is wearing), admitting she still keeps the rucksack she brought from foster care under her bed for fear of never feeling settled. Later, when Kat tells Princess it’s time to unpack that rucksack before leaving her children for Thailand, it isn’t just a goodbye but permission to finally move forward.

For Smith, that emotional moment only works because Nikki has spent the season learning that loving Princess also means making room for Kat, despite how difficult that is. “What’s really lovely in this season is the way Nikki gets the opportunity to show parts of her maturity,” she says. “She’s not a cruel person; she just loves her children, and she is so protective, and there’s this threat of this person who’s actually a really profoundly fundamental human in Princess’s life, who she wants to get to know her. She has an opportunity, and Nikki allows that, which I think is such a strength in her and the love that she has for her daughter.”

That perspective also reshapes how Kat is viewed by the finale. Throughout the season, it would have been easy to paint her as the villain disrupting Nikki and Jason’s life, but Trying refuses to take the easy route. Spall credits that to creator Wolton’s writing. “I think the show just does such a great job of subverting expectations,” he says. “It avoids cliché. Everyone in it is rounded and does things that are surprising.”

Instead, Kat is desperately trying to reconnect with her daughter while knowing she can never undo the years they lost. Spall believes that complexity is exactly what has allowed the show to keep growing after five seasons. “Even the character of Kat, who is kind of this bomb that is thrown into the family,” he says, “you care about her, and she herself is trying to do something that she’s simply not equipped to do.”

It’s for this reason that he believes the series has naturally evolved beyond its original premise. By the time the show’s final scene rolls around, Princess walks downstairs without the emotional weight she’s carried since Nikki and Jason found her in Season 2, joining her family around the dinner table. Kat may have left, but she finally gives Princess enough closure to stop searching for the mother she imagined and embrace the family that has been there all along.

Jason’s Next Chapter Could Take ‘Trying’ Full Circle

The finale “gives opportunity for them to go in any direction now.”

Although “WoodScott” wraps nearly every major storyline with a satisfying sense of closure, Trying never feels like it’s saying goodbye. Jason’s biggest throughline this season has been whether he’s cut out to become a social worker after struggling through his placement. Meanwhile, Nikki is trying to discover who she is beyond being needed every second of the day, and Princess has reached a place where she can start looking forward. Rather than the story ending, the finale clears the board for a new phase, and, as executive producers this season, both see that as one of the finale’s biggest strengths.

While the Season 5 finale ends with a neat emotional bow, Smith doesn’t believe it closes any doors for the series. “It does have a very neat bow at the end of it, but it’s not so much a bow as in to be like, ‘Okay, that’s it. Goodbye now!’” Smith smiles. “I hope that we get to do it again, because I would like to see it go full circle and see what it looks like with Jason looking after a family as a social worker. I just think that would be a really lovely thing to experience. I equally hope that that’s not the end of it, but I think it gives opportunity for them to go in any direction now, actually.”

Spall agrees, believing Jason’s biggest journey is only just beginning. Rather than making him an instant success in his new career, the show embraces the uncertainty that comes with starting over. As Spall points out, that has always been Trying’s philosophy: “Even with them getting the kids, they’re not great at it. They try, and they are great in certain ways, but they’re not perfect.”

That same honesty carries into Jason’s new career. “I like the fact that Jason is like, ‘I don’t even know if I’m cut out for this. I think I might just quit and not do it anymore.’ I think that’s very human,” Spall says. “I think there’s room for, if there’s another season, where it could be that Scarlett’s character goes to university, and so then they’ve got an empty nest again… Because it’s a show that started off being about adoption, and now it’s kind of a family show. It’s about family, and Andy’s done a really great job in continuing to give the show life. Because, ultimately, these shows live and die on being a collection of people that you like hanging out with, and they’re really well-rounded, original characters. Still, it’s my favorite thing to do.”

Trying is now available to stream on Apple TV. Watch the full interview with Esther Smith and Rafe Spall above.